Even approving the date of a county budget hearing was ensnared in the contentious issues of property tax increases and spending priorities in Leavenworth County, as two commissioners faced off in a tense debate in a recent meeting.
With only four of five members present, the commissioners deadlocked 2-2 over approving an August 20th date for the public hearing required of local governments proposing tax increases over last year, exceeding the so-called “Revenue Neutral” part of the Truth in Taxation law.
State law requires local governments exceeding revenue-neutral (the mill levy that would not result in collecting more property tax revenue) to hold public meetings between August 20th and September 20th and take a recorded vote on the tax increase.
The tie vote resulted from Commissioner Vanessa Reid voting “No” on two LVCO budget bills; one to fund the overall budget, and the second to fund Special Funds for local sewer districts and for residents outside city limits to maintain local service roads, referred to by County Administrator Mark Loughry as a “gravel road tax”.
The August 20th hearing date was approved 3-1 on the overall budget for the county, but when Reid voted “No” on the Special Funds budget, so did Commissioner Jeff Culbertson. But Culbertson’s vote was in protest to Reid’s, as revealed in his questioning of his fellow commissioner over her stance on both budget bills.
Lengthy squabble between Leavenworth County Commissioners Culbertson and Reid
Commissioner Willie Dove asked Culbertson and Reid: “Is there a reason these individuals don’t want to have a hearing?”
“It’s a notice to exceed revenue neutral,” replied Reid, “and I’ve been a solid ‘No’ vote on those now for 3 ½ years (dating back to her service on the Leavenworth School Board)
“But, it’s a hearing,” replied temporary Board Chair Mike Stieben, substituting for the absent Chairman Mike Smith.
“It’s a hearing,” echoed Dove, “It’s statutory that we’re supposed to have a hearing on it.”
Reid countered: “It’s not statutory that we exceed Revenue Neutral.”
“So, Commissioner Reid”, began Culbertson, “what is your reason for not voting to exceed revenue neutral?”
Reid: “I just gave my answer. Now, it’s your turn to answer why you voted “No”.
Culbertson: “You’re not answering. You’re saying, just because you don’t want to approve revenue-neutral. So, what is your alternative?”
Reid: “So my protest would be that I asked for the county to produce a revenue-neutral budget. So, the commission had the opportunity to see the differences.”
Culbertson: “So you are you’re not gonna vote for a budget that’s not revenue neutral, right?”
Reid: “I was not allowed the opportunity to see a revenue-neutral budget for the county.”
Culbertson: “So you don’t have an alternative. You’re just gonna say, I don’t know what needs to be cut, but something needs to be cut or I’m not gonna vote for it.”
Reid: “As I stated before, I think that we should have allowed staff to create a revenue-neutral budget so that we could discuss the differences.”
Culbertson: “Staff told you what they needed. Staff told you we cannot remain revenue neutral to afford the same assets and services that we had. That’s what the staff recommendation to you was. And you’re saying, ‘I don’t care what staff is saying, that that’s how much money we need. I’m saying, I’m not going to vote for you to get that much money. I don’t know what needs to be cut. I don’t know what there is to be cut. You figure it out.’ That’s what you’re saying.”
Reid: “You can put words in my mouth if you would like.”
Culbertson: “I’m asking you.”
Reid: “For the last three and a half years on the school board, I have never once been denied to see a revenue-neutral budget.
Culbertson: “So, the reason you’re saying no is because you didn’t see a revenue-neutral budget, and that’s because the staff told you there isn’t a way to create a revenue-neutral budget and keep the same assets and services that our citizens had.
Reid: “So, Commissioner Culbertson, I believe that the view of the county commission is to direct staff, not the opposite. So was this board’s decision not to see a revenue-neutral budget? It doesn’t have anything to do with what staff said or did not say.”
Culbertson: “So you’re saying it’s the county commissioner’s job to micromanage each department and tell each department head how to run their department.”
Reid: “No, I think it’s our job to lead, and I don’t think we can lead well without all of the information being presented.”
Culbertson: “Without what information? They’ve given us all their information. They said, “This is what we need.
Reid: “As our county administrator stated, he would do what the board asked if the board asked for a revenue-neutral budget to be presented, that’s what we would have had the opportunity to look at. But I’m still waiting to hear your answer for your “No” vote.”
Culbertson: “The reason I’m voting no is because you want to vote no, just so you can say, ‘Oh, I didn’t vote for the budget. Everybody else did. The other commissioners are the reason that your taxes went up, not me.’ So the reason I voted ‘no’ is because I knew it would be a tie, and I knew it would bring this conversation. If you don’t want to vote for revenue neutral, what is your alternative?”
Reid: “I don’t know if we still have time to ask for revenue revenue-neutral budget or not, but that’s the position that we were in when this board decided not to view it.
Stieben: “I think we have time. I think we should present a revenue-neutral budget to this board next week. I think that would be very illustrative of what we’re talking about. Because the people would be able to see the services that would be kept.
Dove: “Mark, is this something that’s doable?”
Loughry: “I can get it put together, commissioners, and it’d be basically just generic. I would have to go in and look at across the board, what it would require to cut, to get there. I don’t think I have time to go back to the departments and say, hey, cut this, cut this, whatever. I would just have to look at their budgets, and I’m going to have to take 10% here, 10% there, or whatever. But I could do it. I could have that.
Culbertson: (To Reid) “And that’s a responsible way to do the budget? You’re gonna micromanage and say, I don’t know what you do, but I’m gonna cut 10% of your money.”
Reid: “No, that’s not what I said. What I said was this board failed to review a revenue-neutral budget at the appropriate time. So as the administrator just stated, it’s not going to be what it could have been for us to discuss and go through.”
Stieben: “It’s not going to be what it could have been, but we can present a revenue-neutral budget for the public to see approximately what kind of services would have to be reduced. And I believe the number that you gave was around $3.5 million, if I recall.”
Loughry: “I think that’s pretty close, commissioner.” (The actual proposed increase is $2 million.)
Stieben: “I think that would be good to continue this discussion so that we can demonstrate why, or why not, that’s possible.
Culbertson: “You’re gonna have to specifically say this is why we’re going to remain revenue neutral. We’re gonna cut these services or assets. You’re not going to be able to just say, I don’t know what to cut, but I’m not going to vote for the budget.”
Reid: “I don’t have to give any explanation, actually.”
Culbertson: “You don’t?”
Stieben: (To Loughery) “So, could you present that to us next week?”
Loughry: “I can do it, like I said, I can give you, kind of a generic across-the-board. Here’s the departments, they have to cut this much. Some of the items can’t be cut because they’re mandated, so we have to fund those, but the ones that can be cut, we would have to pick up the slack on that. Just as an example, I just did the math really quickly on the local service road budget. That’s the one to talk about right now. And it is $178,801. It would have to be cut out of local service roads to make it revenue neutral.”
Stieben: “So let’s bring that back next week, and let me just say, you know, we had a $3.5 million if we were revenue neutral. But then, after we did not adopt revenue revenue-neutral budget, I came back and offered $741,000 worth of cuts. It could have been implemented, including some things that didn’t make that were very inconvenient, like moving people who could only come into one entrance of the commission building, stabilizing how much the exact number would be, 2% in all departments, and some things wouldn’t be easy cuts, but it was $741,000 not $3.5 million, and Commissioner (Reid):, you didn’t support all those cuts.”
Reid: “That’s correct.”
Stieben: “So you’re voting revenue neutral, but you didn’t support any of the cuts. “And the way I see that is having your cake and eating it, too.”
Culbertson: “Exactly.”
Reid: “I would like to see us next year, actually look over a revenue-neutral budget and make the comparisons at the appropriate time instead of late in the game, like we’re doing it now.”
Stieben: “Wait… We have plenty of time. The budget has not been set. We could even delay, we have even into September. If we need to change the notices and all that, I don’t want to do that, but I want to go through.. Let’s have a revenue-neutral budget presented here so that we can get this all out on the table. Because I don’t want it to be said that we didn’t consider something as part of this budget, because we have.”
Reid: “So we will have the opportunity to hear from the departments?”
Loughry: “No, I don’t think we have the time for each department to do all this. I will have to sit down and go through the budget and just kind of look at the things that can’t be cut, because again, they are mandated that we do. And then assess what the rest is, and then just across-the-board, it’s a 10% or a 15%, whatever it may be.”
Stieben: “But you’ll reach out to the departments if necessary?”
Loughry: “If I have time. Again, I have basically 24 hours to get something, which means trying to get the department heads, some of them are not in, to do this. I don’t think that’s reasonable to ask them to get back to me. I’ll work with them as much as I can.”
Stieben: “Well, it sounds like you’re gonna make a good faith effort to come back to us with a….”
Loughry: “I will present something. As Commissioner Reid pointed out, about a month and a half ago would have been a little easier to do this, but I will give you something.
Stieben: “So, I think that would be illustrative of how many services, roads, bridges, infrastructure would have to be cut if we implemented a $ 3.5 million cut. I’m looking forward to that.”
Culbertson then changed his vote on the second budget bill to “Yes”, which allowed commission approval for an August 20th hearing date, with a revenue-neutral budget from the county administrator due by the next commission meeting August 13th.
An editorial by Dave Trabert, CEO of Kansas Policy Institute and the Sentinel, comments on this unprofessional exchange and shows how county commissioners could avoid a property tax increase without cutting services.
