Protests against U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) have become commonplace recently, both nationally and locally, and there have been violent confrontations and arrests, most recently in Olathe.
U.S. Attorney for Kansas Ryan Kriegshauser was interviewed recently by KCMO Radio’s Pete Mundo, and the conversation centered on the emotionally-charged protests:
Mundo: “What are you seeing specifically in your district that is concerning you right now as it relates to protests?”
Kriegshauser: “I think the major concern right now is that the temperature just needs to be turned down a little bit. I think a lot of adults in positions of responsibility are communicating things that aren’t necessarily true.
“You know, this idea that ICE or whoever can just disappear American citizens is false, full stop. But when you tell kids or young adults that this is possible, all of a sudden, certain actions that otherwise would be considered inherently dangerous become acceptable to people. And what we’re seeing is that protesting and First Amendment rights cross the line into actual interference with law enforcement.
“That’s a fine line. People have to be conscious that when they are in these situations, they want to go protest. But when they see an arrest that’s affected, it’s hard for them not to involve themselves. Once someone goes hands-on with a federal officer, that’s a crime. And it becomes a huge problem at that point.”
Mundo: “Is this something that you’re hearing from local law enforcement that is getting dicier by the day? Or are you just trying to be proactive to make sure we don’t get to that point?”
Kriegshauser: “No, this is completely about being proactive. I know here in Olathe, I mean, this is my hometown. So obviously, we’ve seen the news, and there are two sides to every story.
“Some of that information will hopefully come out here. You know, we are kind of in a bind because we haven’t made any kind of charging decision. So, we’re limited on what we can talk about.
“But I think it is important to just say, if you want to go protest and be involved, there’s this line where it becomes more operational and where people use vehicles to block law enforcement. You know, it becomes closer to actually engaging with law enforcement in a way that interferes, and that can be charged, and that’s a problem.”
Mundo: “I’ve talked to some people and I don’t know if this is something that you get alerted to as the U.S. Attorney for the District of Kansas, but when ICE is in Olathe, do you have any information as to, specifically, that arrest at the Walmart that’s getting a lot of attention and what that may have been about?
Kriegshauser: “Well, as a Chief Law Enforcement, Federal Law Enforcement Officer for the State of Kansas, I work closely with all of our federal agencies, and ICE and DHS are some of those agencies. So if charges were presented, those would be presented to my office, and we would make the charging decision.”
Mundo: “OK, but nothing has been presented yet?”
Kriegshauser: “I mean, any information that I have right now, I can’t really publicly disclose because that charging decision hasn’t been made.”
Mundo: “OK, and who would that be? Is your office making that decision?”
Kriegshauser: “Yes.”
Mundo: “OK, you see the protests right here in Johnson County, obviously, you know, they’re kind of popping up around the area. Some are out there every Saturday, 87th and 435 in Lenexa seems to have a crowd that’s there every Saturday.
“Some of the signs, listen, First Amendment is the First Amendment. I’m not trying to take away from that. I know you’re not either, but some of the signs really are just grotesque, inappropriate for kids.
“Does any of that matter or is that just basically, hey, you can put on your signs what you want. And if I don’t like it, I’ve got to do my job to shield kids away from it?”
Kriegshauser: “Well, I think you’ve followed some of my litigation history in the past. I’m a huge supporter of the First Amendment and nothing has changed in that regard. However, there is a line that cannot be crossed.
“We’ve charged individuals here in the District of Kansas for making overt threats to law enforcement or any other federal officials. So when that language becomes threatening, particularly in a way that tries to inhibit law enforcement from doing their job, like saying, you know, if you continue these raids, I’ll do X, whatever the threat is, that becomes a huge problem and could be criminally charged.”
Mundo: OK, but if it’s like, hey, ICE murders mothers, I mean, things like that, I guess that’s just First Amendment, right? We just going to have to accept that?”
Kriegshauser: “Yeah, until it crosses that line. Now, there could be other legal consequences if it identified a particular officer, their conduct was, you know, it’s defamatory towards what they did. They may have some legal remedy civilly, but by and large, we’re a country where the answer to speech is more speech. That’s generally my philosophy.”
Mundo: “Anything else you want to make sure Kansans know as, you know, unfortunately, the temperature is turned up too high and people, hopefully, who are responsible and in leadership roles will help turn it down?”
Kriegshauser: “Yeah, I would just say to the parents out there, there are all these Facebook groups where people are tracking ICE officers. If your kids are involved in this, I mean, people should go out and protest and speak their minds. But once people are involved with operationally involving themselves with law enforcement, it becomes a very dangerous situation that can change in a split second.
“So everyone needs to go into that situation knowing what they’re doing. And I think everyone should keep that in mind and stay safe.”
Mundo: “So there are those groups and this is what happened in part to René Good, where these people are trying to follow ICE agents if they see reports of them around Kansas City.”
Kriegshauser: “Right. Well, and, you know, there is a way to do that legally, most likely. But it’s very easy to cross that line into felonious activity, especially when emotions are running high.
“So people who are involved in that need to be well-trained and know what that line is. When kids or young adults get swept up into this, that line can easily be crossed and everyone should be aware of that.”
